Thursday, December 24, 2015

Marshall Applewhite and Bonnie Nettles of Heaven's Gate and Mormonism





"I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods," (Teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370)

The Godhead consists of the three distinct personages and three gods.. The Father Son and Holy Spirit. The Father and Son have bodies of flesh and bones, while the Holy Spirit is a personage of spirit. Robert Millet A Different Jesus page 198

The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35).

Heber C. Kimball stated: "The Holy Ghost is a man; he is one of the sons of our Father and our God" (Journal of Discourses, vol.5, p.179).



Mormons throw the scriptures out and accept the words of there leaders . and expect it follows to pray about there leaders pronouncements and forsake Scriptures and outside influences
Mark 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: "



2 Nephi 31:
21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

Alma 11:
44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but everything shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.


Mormon 7:
7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.

The Testimony of Three Witnesses
And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.
Oliver Cowdery
David Whitmer
Martin Harris

Doctrine and Covenants 20 :
28 Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen.

Marshall Applewhite and Bonnie Nettles of Heaven's Gate condemned investigation about what they said and asked them to pray about there teachings, sounds just like Mormonism

Why should subjective feelings be suspected? Because we are sinful creatures and can be swayed by our emotions and sinful desires:

•"The heart of man is desperately wicked and cannot be trusted" (Jeremiah 17:9).

•"There is a way which seems right unto a man, but the end is death" (Proverbs 14:12).

Many sincere seekers fall for this ploy, being ignorant of the warnings set forth by the Bible. Nowhere does the Bible ever direct the believing Christian to take any religious book and pray about the truthfulness of its contents. While we are told to ask God for wisdom (James 1:5), the clear Biblical directive and pattern to follow includes more than this:

•"do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world" (1 John. 4:1).
•"If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, he is conceited and understands nothing" (1 Tim. 6:3-4).
•"Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves" (2 Cor. 13:5).
•"you put to the test those who call themselves apostles, and they are not, and you found them to be false" (Rev. 2:2).
•"Prove all things, hold fast that which is good" (1 Thess. 5:21).
•The Apostle Paul knew the gospel he preached was true because Christ's resurrection was historically verifiable (1 Cor. 15:1-8). Is the Book of Mormon historically verifiable? No.

Why is this the better method? Because not every self-proclained prophet is from God; many present a false gospel:

•"You are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel... even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!" (Gal. 1:6-8).
•"if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted... (2 Cor. 11:4).
•"Thus says the LORD of hosts, Do not listen to the words of the prophets who are prophesying to you. They are leading you into futility; They speak a vision of their own imagination, not from the mouth of the LORD" (Jer. 23:16).

How can we determine if a prophet is speaking from God? First, the prophecy must be 100% accurate. Second, the Bible says to use God's previous revelation through Biblical authors as a standard of comparison, because no new revelation will contradict God's previous words:

•"If a prophet... arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying, "Let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them [i.e. contradicting the ten commandments],' you shall not listen to the words of that prophet ...but that prophet ... shall be put to death" (Deut 13:1-5).
•"When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the LORD has NOT spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously" (Deut 18:22).
•"If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, he is conceited and understands nothing" (1 Tim. 6:3-4).
•Paul commended the Bereans for objectively investigating the things he taught them: "Now these were more noble-minded...for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily, to see whether these things were so" (Acts 17:11).

http://www.leaderu.com/offices/micha...m/feeling.html

Friday, October 30, 2015

The gods and POLYTHEISM view of Mormonism

 
 
The Book of Abraham
.
Chapter 4

The Gods plan the creation of the earth and all life thereon—Their plans for the six days of creation are set forth.

3 And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light; and there was light.

4 And they (the Gods) comprehended the light, for it was bright; and they divided the light, or caused it to be divided, from the darkness.

5 And the Gods called the light Day, and the darkness they called Night. And it came to pass that from the evening until morning they called night; and from the morning until the evening they called day; and this was the first, or the beginning, of that which they called day and night.

6 And the Gods also said: Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and it shall divide the waters from the waters.

7 And the Gods ordered the expanse, so that it divided the waters which were under the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so, even as they ordered.

8 And the Gods called the expanse, Heaven. And it came to pass that it was from evening until morning that they called night; and it came to pass that it was from morning until evening that they called day; and this was the second time that they called night and day.

9 And the Gods ordered, saying: Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the earth come up dry; and it was so as they ordered;

10 And the Gods pronounced the dry land, Earth; and the gathering together of the waters, pronounced they, Great Waters; and the Gods saw that they were obeyed.

11 And the Gods said: Let us prepare the earth to bring forth grass; the herb yielding seed; the fruit tree yielding fruit, after his kind, whose seed in itself yieldeth its own likeness upon the earth; and it was so, even as they ordered.

12 And the Gods organized the earth to bring forth grass from its own seed, and the herb to bring forth herb from its own seed, yielding seed after his kind; and the earth to bring forth the tree from its own seed, yielding fruit, whose seed could only bring forth the same in itself, after his kind; and the Gods saw that they were obeyed.

14 And the Gods organized the lights in the expanse of the heaven, and caused them to divide the day from the night; and organized them to be for signs and for seasons, and for days and for years;

16 And the Gods organized the two great lights, the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night; with the lesser light they set the stars also;

17 And the Gods set them in the expanse of the heavens, to give light upon the earth, and to rule over the day and over the night, and to cause to divide the light from the darkness.

18 And the Gods watched those things which they had ordered until they obeyed.


20 And the Gods said: Let us prepare the waters to bring forth abundantly the moving creatures that have life; and the fowl, that they may fly above the earth in the open expanse of heaven.

21 And the Gods prepared the waters that they might bring forth great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters were to bring forth abundantly after their kind; and every winged fowl after their kind. And the Gods saw that they would be obeyed, and that their plan was good.

22 And the Gods said: We will bless them, and cause them to be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas or great waters; and cause the fowl to multiply in the earth.


24 And the Gods prepared the earth to bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle and creeping things, and beasts of the earth after their kind; and it was so, as they had said.

25 And the Gods organized the earth to bring forth the beasts after their kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after its kind; and the Gods saw they would obey.

26 And the Gods took counsel among themselves and said: Let us go down and form man in our image, after our likeness; and we will give them dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So the Gods went down to organize man in their own image, in the image of the Gods to form they him, male and female to form they them.

28 And the Gods said: We will bless them. And the Gods said: We will cause them to be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it, and to have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

29 And the Gods said: Behold, we will give them every herb bearing seed that shall come upon the face of all the earth, and every tree which shall have fruit upon it; yea, the fruit of the tree yielding seed to them we will give it; it shall be for their meat.


31 And the Gods said: We will do everything that we have said, and organize them; and behold, they shall be very obedient. And it came to pass that it was from evening until morning they called night; and it came to pass that it was from morning until evening that they called day; and they numbered the sixth time.

Chapter 5

The Gods finish Their planning of the creation of all things—They bring to pass the Creation according to Their plans—Adam names every living creature.

2 And the Gods said among themselves: On the seventh time we will end our work, which we have counseled; and we will rest on the seventh time from all our work which we have counseled.

3 And the Gods concluded upon the seventh time, because that on the seventh time they would rest from all their works which they (the Gods) counseled among themselves to form; and sanctified it. And thus were their decisions at the time that they counseled among themselves to form the heavens and the earth.

4 And the Gods came down and formed these the generations of the heavens and of the earth, when they were formed in the day that the Gods formed the earth and the heavens,

7 And the Gods formed man from the dust of the ground, and took his spirit (that is, the man’s spirit), and put it into him; and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.

8 And the Gods planted a garden, eastward in Eden, and there they put the man, whose spirit they had put into the body which they had formed.


Doctrine and Covenants

Section 121:
32 According to that which was ordained in the midst of the Council of the Eternal God of all other gods before this world was, that should be reserved unto the finishing and the end thereof, when every man shall enter into his eternal presence and into his immortal rest.

Section 132:18-20, 37
18 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that covenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.

19
And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb's Book of Life, that he shall commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever.

20
Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.

37
Abraham received concubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, because they were given unto him, and he abode in my law; as Isaac also and Jacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commanded, they have entered into their exaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods.


What's interesting how the Bible teaches only ONE GOD involved in the Creation


 Isa. 44:24

Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer,
And He who formed you from the womb:
“I am the LORD, who makes all things,
Who stretches out the heavens all alone,Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself;





Adam and Others helped in creation, it is true that Adam helped to form this earth. He labored with our Savior Jesus Christ. I have a strong view or conviction that there were others also who assisted them. Perhaps Noah and Enoch; and why not Joseph Smith. Doctrines of Salvation Vol. 1 p 74-75


1 Nephi 13: 41 "And they must come according to the words which shall be established by the mouth of the Lamb; and the words of the Lamb shall be made known in the records of thy seed, as well as in the records of the twelve apostles of the Lamb; wherefore they both shall be established in one; for there is one God and one Shepherd over all the earth."

even the Book of Mormon teaches only ONE GOD exists


Tuesday, October 20, 2015

Joseph Smith's words over JESUS in Mormonism

 

"I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods," (Teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370)

The Godhead consists of the three distinct personages and three gods.. The Father Son and Holy Spirit. The Father and Son have bodies of flesh and bones, while the Holy Spirit is a personage of spirit. Robert Millet A Different Jesus page 198

The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35).

Mark 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: "

Very interesting the pre-1835 Joseph Smith agreed with Jesus

2 Nephi 31:
21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

Alma 11:
44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but everything shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.


Mormon 7:
7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.

The Testimony of Three Witnesses
And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.
Oliver Cowdery
David Whitmer
Martin Harris


Doctrine and Covenants 20 :
28 Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen.

Even at General Conference this was said

COUNSEL GIVEN BY PRESIDENT CHARLES W. PENROSE

Now, some of our brethren have taken up quite a discussion as to the fulness of the everlasting gospel. We are told that the Book of Mormon contains the fulness of the gospel, that those who like to get up a dispute, say that the Book of Mormon does not contain any reference to the work of salvation for the dead and that there are many other things pertaining to the gospel that are not developed in that book, and yet we are told that the book contains "the fulness of the everlasting gospel." Well, what is the fulness of the gospel? You read carefully the revelation in regard to the three glories, Section 76, in the Doctrine and Covenants, and you find there defined what the gospel is. There God, the Eternal Father, and Jesus Christ, his Son, and the Holy Ghost, are held up as the three Persons in the Trinity—the one God, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, all three being one God. When people believe in that doctrine and obey the ordinances which are spoken of in the same list of principles, you get the fulness of the gospel for this reason: If you really believe so as to have faith in our Eternal Father and in his Son, Jesus Christ, the Redeemer, and will hear him, you will learn ail about what is needed to be done for the salvation of the living and redemption of the dead.

(General Conference Report, April 1922, pp. 27-28.)
 
 
 
 


So why do Mormons reject Jesus, the Book of Mormon and Bible and cling to the words of post 1835 Joseph Smith

    During Joseph Smith's post 1835 period he went to a full-blown polytheist

 Book of Abraham

Chapter 4

The Gods plan the creation of the earth and all life thereon—Their plans for the six days of creation are set forth.
 And then the Lord said: Let us go down. And they went down at the beginning, and they, that is the Gods, organized and formed the heavens and the earth.
 And the earth, after it was formed, was empty and desolate, because they had not formed anything but the earth; and darkness reigned upon the face of the deep, and the Spirit of the Gods was brooding upon the face of the waters.
 And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light; and there was light.
 And they (the Gods) comprehended the light, for it was bright; and they divided the light, or caused it to be divided, from the darkness.
 And the Gods called the light Day, and the darkness they called Night. And it came to pass that from the evening until morning they called night; and from the morning until the evening they called day; and this was the first, or the beginning, of that which they called day and night.
 And the Gods also said: Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and it shall divide the waters from the waters.
 And the Gods ordered the expanse, so that it divided the waters which were under the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so, even as they ordered.




   Mormons have always twisted scripture to justify polytheism, here's one that even one of there so-called Apostle gets right



James Talmage, a Mormon Apostle, said Psalm 82:6 is not about becoming gods.

 "In Psalm 82:6, judges invested by divine appointment are called 'gods.'  To this scripture the Savior referred in His reply to the Jews in Solomon's Porch.  Judges so authorized officiated as the representatives of God and are honored by the exalted title 'gods.'  Compare the similar appellation applied to Moses (Exo. 4:16; 7:1).  Jesus Christ possessed divine authorization, not through the word of God transmitted to Him by man, but as an inherent attribute.  The inconsistency of calling human judges 'gods,' and of ascribing blasphemy to the Christ who called Himself the Son of God, would have been apparent to the Jews but for their sin-darkened minds."  (James Talmage, Jesus the Christ, p. 501). -- Mormons often quote Psalm 82:6 which Jesus quoted in John 10:30-34 to show that we can become gods. 
 Rather than them believing the truth from a Christian, perhaps they will believe it from their own apostle.

judge must act with impartiality and true justice, because even judges must stand someday before the Judge. Verses 6 and 7 warn human magistrates that they, too, must be judged: “I said, `You are gods; you are all sons of the Most High.' But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler.”

 
This passage is saying that God has appointed men to positions of authority in which they are considered as gods among the people. They are to remember that, even though they are representing God in this world, they are mortal and must eventually give an account to God for how they used that authority.

 

Thursday, July 9, 2015

Straw man of Mormonism






 In Marvelous Work and A Wonder, Le Grand Richards Page 18 under the heading John’s Testimony of the Personality of God Says “This accords also with the report of John’s baptism of Jesus:   16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”   Here each of the three members of the Godhead are distinctly and separately mentioned; (1) Jesus coming up out of the water; (2) the Holy Ghost descending like a dove; (3) the voice of the Father from heaven expressing his love and approval of his beloved Son. How could one possibly believe these three to be one person without body or form?
 
  President Gordon B. Hinckley explained why he also could not believe in the Trinity: The world wrestles with the question of who God is, and in what form He is found. Some say that the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost are one. I wonder how they ever arrive at that. How could Jesus have prayed to Himself when he uttered the Lord’s Prayer? How could He have net with Himself when He was on the Mount of Transfiguration? No. He is a separate being. God, our Father, is one. Jesus Christ is two. The Holy Ghost is three. And these three are united in purpose and in working together to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.’ ONE GOD The above comments are clearly antithetical
 
  James Talmage states: “This [the Trinity] cannot rationally be construed to mean that the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are one in substance and person (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.40)  
 
1. Hugh B. Brown, The Abundant Life, p.313   Surely this was not ventriloquism where Christ was speaking to and of himself. It was the Father introducing His Son. In this case, the members of the Holy Trinity manifested themselves, each in a different way, and each was distinct from the others. A similar event occurred on the Mount of Transfiguration when members of the Godhead were distinguished in the presence of Moses and Elias, and Peter, James, and John.
 
What’s interesting about all these statements is that Le Grand Richards, Gordon B. Hinckley, James Talmage, Hugh B. Brown and other leaders like Robert Hales and Jeffrey R Holland lie about is the Orthodox view of the Godhead and pin modalism to Orthodox Christianity and our belief of the Trinity.

 
 
 Notice how we believe the teaching they try to say we believe is considered a heresy and is called modalism and monarchism Trinity 1X1X1=1 Mormonism 1+1+1=3
 
 
 http://carm.org/heresies




    "I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods," (Teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370) = polytheism

    Mark 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: " Monotheism

    Jesus says ONE GOD in the Godhead, Joseph Smith says three . Who does Mormons believe and follow ? This is the major difference between Orthodox Christianity and Mormonism

     
Notice from reputable dictionaries  and encyclopedias say we believe Three separate and distinct persons represent the  ONE GOD [God- Godhead- Substance- Essence- Being [ all Synonyms ]

The doctrine of the Trinity in the godhead includes the three following particulars, viz. (a) There is only one God, one divine nature; (b) but in this divine nature there is the distinction of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, as three (subjects or persons); and (c) these three-have equally, and in common with one another, the nature and perfection of supreme divinity. It was the custom in former times for theologians to blend their own speculations and those of others with the statement of the Bible doctrine. It is customary now to exhibit first the simple doctrine of the Bible, and afterwards, in a separate part, the speculations of the learned respecting it. (from McClintock and Strong Encyclopedia, Electronic Database. Copyright © 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

  TRINITY The coexistence of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in the unity of the Godhead (divine nature or essence). The doctrine of the trinity means that within the being and activity of the one God there are three distinct persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Although the word trinity does not appear in the Bible, the “trinitarian formula” is mentioned in the Great Commission (Matt 28:19) and in the benediction of the apostle Paul’s Second Epistle to the Corinthians (2 Cor 13:14). (from Nelson’s Illustrated Bible Dictionary, Copyright © 1986, Thomas Nelson Publishers)  

Trinity used to express the doctrine of the unity of God as subsisting in three distinct Persons. This word is derived from the Gr. trias , first used by Theophilus (A.D. 168 A.D. - 183 A.D.), or from the Lat. trinitas, first used by Tertullian (A.D. 220 A.D.), to express this doctrine. The propositions involved in the doctrine are these: 1. That God is one, and that there is but one God (Deut 6:4; 1 Kings 8:60; Isa 44:6; Mark 12:29,32; John 10:30). 2.

That the Father is a distinct divine Person (hypostasis, subsistentia, persona, suppositum intellectuale), distinct from the Son and the Holy Spirit. 3. That Jesus Christ was truly God, and yet was a Person distinct from the Father and the Holy Spirit. 4. That the Holy Spirit is also a distinct divine Person. (from Easton’s Bible Dictionary, PC Study Bible formatted electronic database Copyright © 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)
 
 
We believe God is Trinity, which means that He is one God who has eternally existed in three persons, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Each one is fully God. God is completely unified in His diversity. All persons of the Trinity are equal in essence, nature, and substance, but they are different in persons. All things are from the Father, through the Son, and by the Holy Spirit. Each person of the Godhead shares all the attributes of God, including eternality, freedom, holiness, righteousness, immutability, omniscience, omnipresence, omnipotence, happiness, wisdom, sovereignty, perfection, goodness, and justice, grace, and mercy. God is holy, which means that he is transcendent over creation. He is the source of life. Nothing exists apart from His sustaining power. Matthew 28:18–19; Mark 12:29; John 1:14; Acts 5:3–4; 2 Corinthians 13:14; Hebrews 1:1–3; Revelation 1:4–6.
  Recent examples of a Mormon leader spreading this straw man

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2014/10/eternal-life-to-know-our-heavenly-father-and-his-son-jesus-christ?lang=eng
 

http://www.lds.org/ensign/2007/11/the-only-true-god-and-jesus-christ-whom-he-hath-sent?lang=eng


https://www.lds.org/ensign/1995/05/apostasy-and-restoration?lang=eng



 
 
 
 

 

Monday, July 6, 2015

The Jesus of the Bible and the Creeds

”Who although being essentially one with God and in the Form of God {possessing the fullness of the attributes which make GOD GOD} did not think this equality with God was a thing to be grasped or retained.” Philippians 2:6 Amplified version

Philippians 2 tells us that Jesus gave up or didn’t cling or retain his equality with God [ Father and Holy Spirit ] but laid aside his power as the Almighty GOD who created everything we see and can’t see.

Col 1 : 16  For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Psalm 19

1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament showeth his handywork.

Romans 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath showed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:









 2 Cor. 8:9 “For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.”

2 Cor 8 tells us Jesus gave up all his wealth as the Almighty God and became poor , so poor he was born to parents who could not afford a place for him to be born.

Luke 9:58
And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

Yet Jesus was obedient to his parents, who could only afford turtle doves for a sacrifice at the temple.

Luke 2: 51 And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart. 52And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

Hebrews 12
1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

In the original language “for the joy” means “he exchanged Joy for Shame”.

So Jesus with all the happiness and joy he had on his Almighty throne in heaven gave that up for the shame of being tortured and killed on the cross who knew no sin himself but sacrificed himself for his enemies .

This is the Biblical Jesus.



 
 

                    The song below reaffirms this teaching
 



This recent Christmas song tells us Jesus is the
GREAT I AM 

 




"The Gods who dwell in the Heaven...have been redeemed from the grave in a world which existed before the foundations of this earth were laid. They and the Heavenly body which they now inhabit were once in a fallen state....they were exalted also, from fallen men to Celestial Gods to inhabit their Heaven forever and ever." (Apostle Orson Pratt in The Seer, page 23)

Would you think fallen means sinner

In the 1844 LDS publication, Times and Seasons, volume 5, pages 613-614,... Joseph Smith reiterated that God was an exalted man and that Mormon men could also become Gods. This teaching is well documented, as is their claim that God is not a spirit being, but that he has a body of flesh and bone.

God is a perfected, saved soul enjoying eternal life.” (Second Counselor in the First Presidency, Marion G. Romney, as per Salt Lake Tribune, April 3, 1977.)

 It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has once been a finite being; and yet we are not in such close communion with him as many have supposed. He has passed on, and is exalted far beyond what we can now comprehend.

Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 334

The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak as been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the matters of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages." (Church News, June 20, 1998, p70)   Gordon B Hinckley

 
http://youtu.be/tkMY88DZcGU      



Messiah Dwelt with God

Christ Is the Firstborn


The Lord Jesus, who is called Christ, was in the beginning with God. He was the "Only Begotten Son, who was in the bosom of the Father, even from the beginning." (D&C 76:13.) He was "prepared from before the foundation of the world." (Moses 5:57; 3 Ne. 26:5.) And his solemn prayer, uttered near the climax of his mortal ministry, was: "O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." (John 17:5.)


Though he has now attained unto that exalted state in which he is described as being "from everlasting to everlasting" (D&C 61:1) and "from all eternity to all eternity" (D&C 39:1)—as will eventually be the description and state of all those who gain exaltation (D&C 132:20)—yet, as a conscious identity, he had a beginning. He was born, as were all the spirit children of the Father. God was his Father, as he is of all the rest. For him, as for all men—and he is the Prototype—the eternal spirit element that has neither beginning nor end, and is self-existent by nature, was organized into a spirit body. He was one of "the intelligences that were organized before the world was." (Abr. 3:22.) He was and is the Firstborn of the Father.

The Promised Messiah page 165 Bruce R McConkie

http://youtu.be/tkMY88DZcGU

I agree Traditional Christians do have a have different Jesus

Link below goes in bigger detail Mormon Jesus versus Traditional View

Saturday, May 16, 2015

From scripture "It is Written"

 
 

                                               http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sennacherib
 

Sennacherib wrote in his prism

The stone carvings in the walls include many battle scenes, impalings and scenes showing Sennacherib's men parading the spoils of war before him. He also bragged about his conquests: he wrote of Babylon: "Its inhabitants, young and old, I did not spare, and with their corpses I filled the streets of the city." He later wrote about a battle in Lachish: "And Hezekiah of Judah who had not submitted to my yoke...him I shut up in Jerusalem his royal city like a caged bird.

 

Hezekiah wrote:

  Psalm 124

7    Our soul is escaped as a bird out of the snare of the fowlers: the snare is broken, and we are escaped.

 

Notice how Archaeological finds prove God’s Word the Bible yet nothing can be found from the Book of Mormon.




 

When Jesus walked in the Middle East he would say it is written , yet not once did he quote a Book of Mormon verse.

 

Deuteronomy 6:13

Fear the LORD your God, serve him only and take your oaths in his name.

 

Deuteronomy 10:20

Fear the LORD your God and serve him. Hold fast to him and take your oaths in his name.

 

1 Samuel 7:3

So Samuel said to all the Israelites, "If you are returning to the LORD with all your hearts, then rid yourselves of the foreign gods and the Ashtoreths and commit yourselves to the LORD and serve him only, and he will deliver you out of the hand of the Philistines."

 

Matthew 4:10

Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.'"

 
 
 Jesus  could have quoted from the Book of Mormon since this was written 556 years before he was born according to the dates in this book




2 Nephi 31:

21 "And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen."

  notice how it teaches the Trinity in 556 BC and it doesn't say one in purpose but ONE GOD like Jesus taught in Mark 12:28-29

28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 2 9And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 
 

 The kinsman-redeemer is a male relative who, according to various laws of the Pentateuch, had the privilege or responsibility to act on behalf of a relative who was in trouble, danger, or need. The Hebrew term (go el) for kinsman-redeemer designates one who delivers or rescues (Genesis 48:16; Exodus 6:6) or redeems property or person (Leviticus 27:9–25, 25:47–55). The kinsman who redeems or vindicates a relative is illustrated most clearly in the book of Ruth, where the kinsman-redeemer is Boaz.

  The story of Ruth and Boaz begins when Ruth and her mother-in-law, Naomi, return to Bethlehem from Moab where they had been living. Naomi’s husband and both sons, one the husband of Ruth, had died, leaving the women penniless and without a male protector. Upon arriving in Bethlehem, Naomi sends Ruth to glean in the fields of Boaz, a wealthy relative of Naomi to whom they, through a series of divinely appointed circumstances, appeal as their go el. Boaz acquiesces, willingly takes Ruth as his wife, and together they bear a son named Obed who became the grandfather of David, the forefather of Jesus.
 
 
Qualifications to be a Kinsman Redeemer
 
1.       Must be a Kinsman
2.       Must be free of debt
3.       Must be able to pay
4.       Must be willing to pay, Ruth first in line kinsman was not willing like Boaz
Jesus is a kinsman Redeemer
1.       Born of a woman, Rahib “the Harlot” Tamar “played the Harlot” and Ruth from the godless country of Moab
2.       Was free of sin
3.       Was God and man
4.       Gave his life willingly
 
Jesus represented all mankind who shed that blood for the world
 
 






        Paul quoted was Epimenides who stated in his work entiled Cretica the following:
      “They fashioned a tomb for thee. O holy and high one.. . .  But thou art not dead, thou livest and abidest forever. For in thee we live and move and have our being.”
      Here Paul uses the poets words to introduce the Greeks  to the death and resurrection of the true God, Jesus Christ.
       The historical account of Epimenides himself would also tie in nicely with presenting Christ to the Greeks for the first time. You see in the 6th century B.C., when the poet Epimenides lived, there was a plague which went throughout all Greece. The Greeks thought that they must have offended one of their gods, so they began offering sacrifices on altars to all their various false gods. When nothing worked they figured there must be a God who they didn’t know about whom they must somehow apease. So Epimenides came up with a plan. He released hungry sheep into the countryside and instructed men to follow the sheep to see where they would lie down. He believed that since hungry sheep would not naturally lie down but continue to graze, if the sheep were to lie down it would be a sign from God that this place was sacred. At each spot, where the sheep tired and layed down, the Athenians built an altar and sacrificed the sheep on it. Afterward it is believed the plague stopped which they attributed to this unknown God accepting the sacrifice.

Acts 17:22  Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars’ hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious. 23For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.

 
 


 



  Jesus is the GATE and ROCK and no one comes to the Father but thru this GATE and ROCK
Matt 7:
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 

 
 
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.




 



21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
 
 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. 28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: 29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

 
 Matthew 4
1 Then Jesus was led out into the wilderness by the Holy Spirit, to be tempted there by Satan. 2 For forty days and forty nights he ate nothing and became very hungry. 3 Then Satan tempted him to get food by changing stones into loaves of bread.
“It will prove you are the Son of God,” he said.
4 But Jesus told him, “No! For the Scriptures tell us that bread won’t feed men’s souls: obedience to every word of God is what we need.”

Jesus was hungry and starving and living in a dystopian condition yet didn’t succumb to the temptations of Satan.
“Since you are the Son of God,” he said. [ correct statement ]

Adam on the other hand was living in a Utopian world in the Garden of Eden, yet succumbed to the temptations of Satan. Are we to believe Adam was God according to Mormonism when he failed in this Utopian environment and Jesus who was at the verge of death didn’t succumb . In fact the Pastor said if he was to eat bread out of stone that would have killed him since solid food would be detrimental in that condition. So Satan’s instructions would have killed Jesus. Since he would have needed to go on a liquid diet initially .

http://mormonquotes.com/Garden_of_Eden