Thursday, August 14, 2014

What Mormon teach about the birth of a handicapped Child

and minorities especially in third world countries
 
"This privilege of obtaining a mortal body on this earth is seemingly so priceless that those in the spirit world, even though unfaithful or not valient, were undoubtedly permitted to take mortal bodies although under penalty of racial or physical or nationalistic limitations...." (Decisions for Successful Living pp 164-65) TLDP:497

 “There is no truth more plainly taught in the Gospel than that our condition in the next world will depend upon the kind of lives we live here. …Is it not just as reasonable to suppose that the conditions in which we now live have been determined by the kind of lives we lived in the pre-existent world of spirits? That the apostles understood this principle is indicated by their question to the Master when the man who was blind from his birth was healed of his blindness, ‘Master, who did sin, this man or his parents that he was born blind?’ (John 9:2.) Now perhaps you will have a partial answer to some of your questions as to why, if God is a just Father, that some of his children are born of an enlightened race and in a time when the Gospel is upon the earth, while others are born of a heathen parentage in a benighted, backward country; and still others are born to parents who have the mark of a black skin with which the seed of Cain were cursed and whose descendants were to be denied the rights of the priesthood of God” (Harold B. Lee, Decisions for Successful Living, pp. 164-165).
     Mormons are famous for taking things out of context , Harold quotes the Apostles but doesn't give Jesus's response

 


 John 9

 1 As he was walking along, he saw a man blind from birth.

2 “Master,” his disciples asked him, “why was this man born blind? Was it a result of his own sins or those of his parents?”

3 “Neither,” Jesus answered. “But to demonstrate the power of God.

 

 So Harold tries to defend the idea handicapped people and black people are born because of there sins in the spirit world by using a verse out of context without giving Jesus's response

 

"I have already told you that the spirits of men and women, all had a previous existence, thousands of years ago, in the heavens, in the presence of God; and I have already told you that among them are many spirits that are more noble, more intelligent than others, that were called the great and mighty ones, reserved until the dispensation of the fulness of times, to come forth upon the face of the earth, through a noble parentage . . . Do you believe, says one, that they are reserved until the last dispensation, for such a noble purpose? Yes; and among the Saints is the most likely place for these spirits to take their tabernacles, through a just and righteous parentage. . . . This is the reason why the Lord is sending them here, brethren and sisters; they are appointed to come and take their bodies here, . . . The Lord has not kept them in store for five or six thousand years past, and kept them waiting for their bodies all this time to send them among the Hottentots, the African negroes, the idolatrous Hindoos, or any other of the fallen nations that dwell upon the face of this earth. They are not kept in reserve in order to come forth to receive such a degraded parentage upon the earth; . . . (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, pp. 6263). (Apostle Orson Pratt, sermon SLC temple, 1852)"

"At the time the devil was cast out of heaven, there were some spirits that did not know who had authority, whether God or the devil. They consequently did not take a very active part on either side, but rather thought the devil had been [p. 20] abused, . . . These spirits were not considered bad enough to be cast down to hell, and never have bodies; neither were they considered worthy of an honourable body on this earth: . . . But those spirits in heaven that rather lent an influence to the devil, thinking he had a little the best right to govern, but did not take a very active part any way were required to come into the world and take bodies in the accursed lineage of Canaan; and hence the Negro or African race ("Speech of Elder Orson Hyde, delivered before the High Priests' Quorum, in Nauvoo," April 27, 1845, printed by John Taylor, p. 30)."



 "Let us consider the great mercy of God for a moment. a Chinese, born in China with a dark skin, and with all the handicaps of that race seems to have little opportunity. but think of the mercy of god to Chinese people who are willing to accept the gospel. In spite of whatever they might have done in the pre-existence to justify being born over there as Chinamen, if they now, in this life, accept the gospel and live it the rest of their lives they can have the Priesthood, go to the temple and receive endowments and sealings, and that means they can have exaltation. Isn't the mercy of God marvelous?


 Think of the Negro, cursed as to the priesthood... This Negro, who in the pre-existence lived the type of life which justified the Lord in sending him to the earth in the lineage of Cain with a black skin, and possibly being born in darkest Africa--if that Negro is willing when he hears the gospel to accept it, he may have many of the blessings of the gospel. In spite of all he did in the pre-existent life, the Lord is willing, if the Negro accepts the gospel with real, sincerer faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessing of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost. If that Negro is faithful all his days, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory. (Race Problems--As They Affect The Church, An address by Mark E. Petersen at the Convention of Teachers of Religion on the College level; Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah, August 27, 1954.)






 

 

 

 


 
Romans 5 Living Bible (TLB)

5 So now, since we have been made right in God’s sight by faith in his promises, we can have real peace with him because of what Jesus Christ our Lord has done for us. 2 For because of our faith, he has brought us into this place of highest privilege where we now stand, and we confidently and joyfully look forward to actually becoming all that God has had in mind for us to be.

3 We can rejoice, too, when we run into problems and trials, for we know that they are good for us—they help us learn to be patient. 4 And patience develops strength of character in us and helps us trust God more each time we use it until finally our hope and faith are strong and steady. 5 Then, when that happens, we are able to hold our heads high no matter what happens and know that all is well, for we know how dearly God loves us, and we feel this warm love everywhere within us because God has given us the Holy Spirit to fill our hearts with his love.

6 When we were utterly helpless, with no way of escape, Christ came at just the right time and died for us sinners who had no use for him. 7 Even if we were good, we really wouldn’t expect anyone to die for us, though, of course, that might be barely possible. 8 But God showed his great love for us by sending Christ to die for us while we were still sinners. 9 And since by his blood he did all this for us as sinners, how much more will he do for us now that he has declared us not guilty? Now he will save us from all of God’s wrath to come. 10 And since, when we were his enemies, we were brought back to God by the death of his Son, what blessings he must have for us now that we are his friends and he is living within us!

11 Now we rejoice in our wonderful new relationship with God—all because of what our Lord Jesus Christ has done in dying for our sins—making us friends of God.

12 When Adam sinned, sin entered the entire human race. His sin spread death throughout all the world, so everything began to grow old and die,[a] for all sinned. 13  We know that it was Adam’s sin that caused this because although, of course, people were sinning from the time of Adam until Moses, God did not in those days judge them guilty of death for breaking his laws—because he had not yet given his laws to them nor told them what he wanted them to do.   14 So when their bodies died it was not for their own sins[c] since they themselves had never disobeyed God’s special law against eating the forbidden fruit, as Adam had.

What a contrast between Adam and Christ who was yet to come! 15 And what a difference between man’s sin and God’s forgiveness!

For this one man, Adam, brought death to many through his sin. But this one man, Jesus Christ, brought forgiveness to many through God’s mercy. 16 Adam’s one sin brought the penalty of death to many, while Christ freely takes away many sins and gives glorious life instead. 17 The sin of this one man, Adam, caused death to be king over all, but all who will take God’s gift of forgiveness and acquittal are kings of life[d] because of this one man, Jesus Christ. 18 Yes, Adam’s sin brought punishment to all, but Christ’s righteousness makes men right with God, so that they can live. 19 Adam caused many to be sinners because he disobeyed God, and Christ caused many to be made acceptable to God because he obeyed.

20 The Ten Commandments were given so that all could see the extent of their failure to obey God’s laws. But the more we see our sinfulness, the more we see God’s abounding grace forgiving us. 21 Before, sin ruled over all men and brought them to death, but now God’s kindness rules instead, giving us right standing with God and resulting in eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Sounds like this chapter condemns Mormonism a couple places
Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1
Joseph Fielding Smith, Bruce R. McConkie
© 1954 Deseret Book Company

ADAM HAD THE TEN COMMANDMENTS. Some people have the idea that the Ten Commandments were first given by Moses when he directed the children of Israel and formulated their code of laws. This is not the case. These great commandments are from the beginning and were understood in righteous communities in the days of Adam. They are, in fact, fundamental parts of the gospel of Jesus Christ, and the gospel in its fulness was first given to Adam.

So Romans says Adam didn't have the Ten Commandments, Joseph Fielding Smith contradicts the Bible and says he did 

 
 
A Mormon apologist said this about Harold B Lee's book

Is this quote by Lee not a bit out of context? I mean, during conference when he stated this he initiates the thought with James 5:28-29 - whereas we see that the condition of our next life is influenced by the actions/choices of this life...and therefore, as he reasons, the conditions for this life must be influenced by the actions/choices of our previous life.
When we read John 9:2, we understand this "reasoning" from Christ's Apostles ("And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?")...

However, Christ responds with the notion that there is a purpose for the blindness, and that it is not a punishment...but an opportunity.
Now is President Lee reasoning that this opportunity is some sort of Divine collusion? Are two righteous spirits taking part i n some sort of confidence game to bolster Christ's "healing power"?...or is Christ actually "healing"?


Is it not possible that, given Mormon doctrine, that a less than righteous spirit occupies a less than righteous body merely to advance in this life? That, given the fact that we are not perfect, that our obstacles and challenges are according to our own needs?

I mean, on the surface, President Lee's statement is certainly abrasive and offends the temporal sensibilities of the weak minded. But, given what Christ has taught, how suffering is regarded in the Gospel, and the Doctrine of pre-existence his statement here is actually much deeper in its resolution.

Or is it your contention that "handicap" people and "minorities" are merely God's object lessons for the able-bodied and majority?...at which case you may be even more bigoted than your alleged notion of Lee. If you contend to interpret John 9:3 as "them people" are put here for our purpose to learn about God, so that Jesus would have some props to perform with - then you certainly have that big log in your eye my friend.

  taken directly from Harold's book


Taken from a page in Harold's book, don't want to be accused of taking something out of context

From chapter 19 of Decisions for Successful Living
by Harold B. Lee

A Priceless Privilege


The privilege of obtaining a mortal body on this earth is seemingly so priceless that those in the spirit world, even though unfaithful or not valiant, were undoubtedly permitted to take mortal bodies although under penalty of racial or physical or nationalistic limitations. Between the extremes of the "noble and the great" spirits, whom God would make his rulers, and the disobedient and the rebellious, who were cast out with Satan, there were obviously many spirits with varying degrees of faithfulness. May we not assume from these teachings that the progress and development we made as spirits have brought privileges and blessings here according to our faithfulness in the spirit world? Now don't be too hasty in your conclusions as to what conditions in mortality constitute the greater privileges. That condition in life which gives the greatest experience and opportunity for development is the one to be most desired and any one so privileged is most favored of God. It has been said that "a smooth sea never made a skillful mariner, neither do uninterrupted prosperity and success qualify for usefulness and happiness. The storms of adversity, like those of the ocean, rouse the faculties and excite the invention, prudence, skill and fortitude of the voyager. The mariners of ancient times, in bracing their minds to outward calamaties, acquired a loftiness of purpose and a moral heroism worth a lifetime of softness and security."


All Are Equal


All are equal in that they are the spirit children of God, and also equal in their right to free agency, as well as in the fact that all are made innocent of previous wrongs committed as they enter this world through the atonement of the Lord Jesus Christ. The Lord has told us that "Every spirit of man was innocent in the beginning; and God having redeemed man from the fall, men became again, in their infant state, innocent before God." (Doc. and Cov. 93:38.) Who knows but that many of those with seeming inequalities in this life, if they do everything possible with their limited opportunities, may not receive greater blessings than some of those rewarded by having been born to a noble lineage and to superior social and spiritual opportunities who fail to live up to their great privileges! The history of the Lord's dealings with his children is filled with incidents that indicate that many of those who are the "elect according to the covenant," or that are of the "chosen" of God to be born through the chosen lineage of the House of Israel or the Lord's "portion" in the pre-existent world, will fail of their callings because of their sins. The descendants of Jacob or Israel, through his twelve sons, have been scattered far and wide among the nations as a punishment because of their transgressions, but in this instance the punishment of Israel has been a blessing to the nations who have thereby received the rights belonging to Israel. It was through the lineage of Judah, one of the sons of Jacob, that the Savior was born. Most of the prophets of every dispensation since the days of Israel have been of the chosen lineage of Jacob through his twelve sons, and we are led to believe by the prophets of our own day that the vast majority of those who have received the Gospel are of the tribe of Ephraim. The Indians on the American continent are descendants of the tribes of Ephraim, Judah, and Manasseh, we are told by the Book of Mormon. (Omni 15-19; I Nephi 5:14-16.) Their dark skin was a curse put upon them because of their transgression, which in a day to come in their descendants will be lifted and they will become white and delightsome as they accept the Gospel and turn to the Lord.

Intermarriage with Other Races


Millions of souls have come into this world with the mark that was put upon Cain's posterity and have been denied the privileges of the priesthood and the fulness of the blessings of the Gospel. Concerning them one of our leaders has expressed this opinion: "I believe that race is the one through which it is ordained those spirits that were not valiant in the great rebellion in heaven should come; who, through their indifference or lack of integrity to righteousness, rendered themselves unworthy of the priesthood and its powers, and hence it is withheld from them to this day." (B. H. Roberts—Contributor, 6:297.) The seed of Cain has been separated from the rest of mankind from the beginning, but they are the children of God. They may become Church members without the priesthood, but a promise of hope has been given by a prophet in our day in these words: "The day will come when all that race will be redeemed and possess all the blessings which we now have." (Quoted from President Brigham Young in Wilford Woodruff, p. 351.)


We should manifest kindness and consideration for these our brothers and sisters who have been born into mortal bodies through the lineage of Cain, no doubt due to some disqualifications resulting from their conduct in the preexistence. Some of this race have become members of the Church and are setting examples of faith and devotion that all of us could well pattern after, despite the limitations of their privileges in the Church.

A Priceless Privilege


The privilege of obtaining a mortal body on this earth is seemingly so priceless that those in the spirit world, even though unfaithful or not valiant, were undoubtedly permitted to take mortal bodies although under penalty of racial or physical or nationalistic limitations. Between the extremes of the "noble and the great" spirits, whom God would make his rulers, and the disobedient and the rebellious, who were cast out with Satan, there were obviously many spirits with varying degrees of faithfulness. May we not assume from these teachings that the progress and development we made as spirits have brought privileges and blessings here according to our faithfulness in the spirit world? Now don't be too hasty in your conclusions as to what conditions in mortality constitute the greater privileges. That condition in life which gives the greatest experience and opportunity for development is the one to be most desired and any one so privileged is most favored of God. It has been said that "a smooth sea never made a skillful mariner, neither do uninterrupted prosperity and success qualify for usefulness and happiness. The storms of adversity, like those of the ocean, rouse the faculties and excite the invention, prudence, skill and fortitude of the voyager. The mariners of ancient times, in bracing their minds to outward calamaties, acquired a loftiness of purpose and a moral heroism worth a lifetime of softness and security."





 

Saturday, August 2, 2014

Mormon Jesus juxtapose Christian Jesus

Hinckley says Mormons Believe in a Different Jesus


by Matt Slick

"In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints 'do not believe in the traditional Christ.' 'No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages.'" (LDS Church News Week ending June 20, 1998, p. 7).

Christians have long maintained that Mormonism teaches a Jesus that is different from what the Bible reveals. Of course, the Mormons say that they believe in the same Jesus that originally walked on the earth and is revealed in the Bible. Though they may make this claim, it is up to them to prove it--especially in light of what Mormonism says about God and Jesus.

In Mormonism, Jesus is a creation, the product of relations between god and his goddess wife who used to be people from another world (McConkie, Bruce, Mormon Doctrine, p. 192, 321, 516, 589). Jesus is the literal spirit brother of the devil and of you and me (McConkie, p. 192, 589). Also, in Mormon theology, God has a body of flesh and bones (Doctrine & Covenants 130:22) as does his wife, and together they produce spirit offspring in heaven who inhabit human bodies on earth.

Very few, if any, of the 'different' Mormon doctrines are found in their Standard Works: the Bible, The Book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants, and The Pearl of Great Price. Rather, they are taught by Mormons of high standing: prophets, apostles, members of the 70 Quorum. McConkie, for example, was a member of the 70's Quorum, a very high ranking Mormon, and wrote the book, Mormon Doctrine, from which much of the documentation for this is taken.

President Hinkley, the prophet and revelator of the Mormon church, has publicly declared that the Jesus of Mormonism and traditional Christianity are not the same. Let's take a look at the difference between the Mormon Jesus and the one of Traditional Christianity: "


The Christian Jesus says Jesus was Fatherless and Motherless until incarnation just like Book of Mormon teaches:

Mosiah 15

3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—

Hebrews 7 King James Version (KJV)

7 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;

2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;

3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.


Gordon B. Hinckley’s doesn’t believe in Jesus of Book of Mormon either

 
I believe the Jesus of Mormonism is different from the traditional Christ of Christianity. President Gordon Hinckley agrees with me when he said,
“As a church we have critics, many of them. They say we do not believe in the traditional Christ of Christianity. There is some substance to what they say” (Gordon Hinckley, “We look to Christ,” Ensign (Conference Edition), May 2002, p. 90).
Apostle Bruce R. McConkie taught,
“And virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit” (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1966, pg.269).
Seventy Bernard Brockbank stated in a general conference,
“It is true that many of the Christian churches worship a different Jesus Christ than is worshipped by the Mormons or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints” (Bernard P. Brockbank, “The Living Christ,” Ensign (Conference Edition), May 1977, p. 26).
What are some of the ways He is different. For one, the LDS Jesus had to work for his salvation. McConkie taught,
“Christ worked out his own salvation by worshipping the Father. After the Firstborn of the Father, while yet a spirit being, had gained power and intelligence that made him like unto God; after he had become, under the Father, the Creator of worlds without number; after he had reigned on the throne of eternal power as the Lord Omnipotent-after all this he yet had to gain a mortal and then an immortal body” (Sermons and Writings of Bruce R. McConkie, 1966, p. 61).
Seventy Milton R. Hunter believed that Jesus had to have continuous obedience, according to a 1945 Melchizedek priesthood manual:
“Jesus became a God and reached His great state of understanding through consistent effort and continuous obedience to all the Gospel truths and universal laws” (Milton R. Hunter, The Gospel Through the Ages, p. 51).
According to Mormonism, perfection is something that Jesus apparently did not have when He was here on earth, for one apostle explained,
“That Jesus attained eternal perfection following his resurrection is confirmed in the Book of Mormon. It records the visit of the resurrected Lord to the people of ancient America. There he repeated the important injunction previously cited but with one very significant addition. He said, ‘I would that ye should be perfect even as I, or your Father who is in heaven is perfect.’ This time he listed himself along with his Father as a perfected personage. Previously he had not” (Russell M. Nelson, “Perfection Pending,” Ensign (Conference Edition), November 1995, p. 87).
Christians beleive that Jesus is God made flesh (see John 1:1-14), which we call the Incarnation. Christ was God from the very beginning and never lost His deity upon the Incarnation. (See Phil. 2:5-11.) Rather, He is 100% God and 100% man. He never sinned--He couldn't even if He wanted to, as the LDS writers seem to insist He could do--and sits at the right hand of God the Father. It belittles Jesus to say that he "became a god" and had to have "consistent and continuous obedience to all the Gospel."
Second, the Jesus of Mormonism is nothing more than the spirit brother of Lucifer, as Milton R. Hunter taught in a Melchizidek priesthood manaul in 1945:
“The appointment of Jesus to be the Savior of the world was contested by one of the other sons of God. He was called Lucifer, son of the morning. Haughty, ambitious, and covetous of power and glory, this spirit-brother of Jesus desperately tried to become the Savior of mankind” (Milton R. Hunter, The Gospel Through the Ages, p. 15).
That thought was agreed upon by an LDS professor:
“Jesus was the firstborn spirit child of God the Father and thus the recipient of the birthright of the royal family. As such, and in that premortal realm, he was the Elder Brother of all of the spirit sons and daughters of the Father” (BYU Professor Robert L. Millet, A Different Jesus? The Christ of the Latter-day Saints, p. 20).
The Christian Jesus and not the Mormon Jesus is found in the BOOK OF MORMON 

Mosiah 3:5 For behold, the time cometh, and is not far distant, that with power, the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was, and is from all eternity to all eternity, shall come down from heaven among the children of men, and shall dwell in a tabernacle of clay, and shall go forth amongst men, working mighty miracles, such as healing the sick, raising the dead, causing the lame to walk, the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear, and curing all manner of diseases.


3 Nephi 19:
18 And behold, they began to pray; and they did pray unto Jesus, calling him their Lord and their God.

Mosiah 5:15 Therefore, I would that ye should be steadfast and immovable, always abounding in good works, that Christ, the Lord God Omnipotent, may seal you his, that you may be brought to heaven, that ye may have everlasting salvation and eternal life, through the wisdom, and power, and justice, and mercy of him who created all things, in heaven and in earth, who is God above all. Amen.

An abridgment taken from the Book of Ether also, which is a record of the people of Jared, who were scattered at the time the Lord confounded the language of the people, when they were building a tower to get to heaven—Which is to show unto the remnant of the house of Israel what great things the Lord hath done for their fathers; and that they may know the covenants of the Lord, that they are not cast off forever—And also to the convincing of the Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God, manifesting himself unto all nations—And now, if there are faults they are the mistakes of men; wherefore, condemn not the things of God, that ye may be found spotless at the judgment-seat of Christ.

Translated by Joseph Smith, Jun.

2 Nephi 26:12 And as I spake concerning the convincing of the Jews, that Jesus is the very Christ, it must needs be that the Gentiles be convinced also that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God;

These quotes from the Book of Mormon sure don't sound like the Jesus of Mormonism do they ?




Yahweh, translated I AM WHO I AM in Exodus,
is derived from the Hebrew verb meaning to be,
to become, to live or to have life and implies
continuing, unfinished action. This name stresses
existence: I AM the One who always is. All life is
contained in God and comes from God, so we call
him "the self-existent one." He always was what
he is – and what he is, he always was – and he
will always be what he was and is! Because he
"is," Yahweh is the God who is always present
and always near. He is not a God that is far off
or a God of past history. He is a God who is
present and acts in the "now." Whatever our
situation, whatever our need, Yahweh is the God
who always is and who is always present.


John 8: Amplified Bible (AMP)

24 That is why I told you that you will die in (under the curse of) your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He [Whom I claim to be—if you do not adhere to, trust in, and rely on Me], you will die in your sins.


Wednesday, May 28, 2014

50 questions for a Mormon

Questions are a great way to witness to Mormons. Most cultists will turn you off if you begin to preach to them, however, asking questions gives them hope that you are genuinely interested in learning more about their religion. It also is a great way to get them thinking about things they may have never thought about and researching into the false teachings of their church. Questions are great seed-planters that the Holy Spirit can make grow in their hearts and minds and, ultimately, lead them to Christ. They are also great conversation starters. The questions below are grouped into 4 different categories.



 Mormon Prophets

1. Why does the Mormon Church still teach that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God after he made a false prophecy about a temple being built in Missouri in his generation (Doctrine and Covenants 84:1-5)?

2. Since the time when Brigham Young taught that both the moon and the sun were inhabited by people, has the Mormon Church ever found scientific evidence of that to be true (Journal of Discourses, 1870, v.13, p.271)?

3. Why did Brigham Young teach that Adam is “our Father and our God” when both the Bible and the Book of Mormon (Mormon 9:12) say that Adam is a creation of God (Journal of Discourses, Apr. 9, 1852, vol.1, p.50)?

4. If Brigham Young was a true prophet, how come one of your later prophets overturned his declaration which stated that the black man could never hold the priesthood in the LDS Church until after the resurrection of all other races (Journal of Discourses, Dec. 12, 1854, 2:142-143)?

5. Since the Bible’s test to determine whether someone is a true prophet of God is 100% accuracy in all his prophecies (Deuteronomy 18:20-22), has the LDS Church ever reconsidered its teaching that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were true prophets?

6. Since the current LDS prophets sometimes contradict the former ones, how do you decide which one is correct?

7. Since there are several different contradictory accounts of Joseph Smith’s first vision, how did the LDS Church choose the correct one?

8. Can you show me in the Bible the LDS teaching that we must all stand before Joseph Smith on the Day of Judgment?



Mormon Scripture

9. Can you show me archeological and historical proof from non-Mormon sources that prove that the peoples and places named in the Book of Mormon are true?

Example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sennacherib's_Annals  like this non-Biblical source vindicating the Bible

10. If the words “familiar spirit” in Isaiah 29:4 refer to the Book of Mormon, why do familiar spirits always refer to occult practices such as channeling and necromancy everywhere else in the Old Testament?

11. Why did Joseph Smith condone polygamy as an ordinance from God (Doctrine and Covenants 132) when the Book of Mormon had already condemned the practice (Jacob 1:15, 2:24)?

12. Why were the words “white and delightsome” in 2 Nephi 30:6 changed to “pure and delightsome” right on the heels of the Civil Rights campaign for blacks?

13. If God is an exalted man with a body of flesh and bones, why does Alma 18:26-28 and John 4:24 say that God is a spirit?

14. Why did God encourage Abraham & Sarah to lie in Abraham 2:24? Isn’t lying a sin according to the 10 commandments? Why did God tell Abraham and Sarah to lie when 2 Nephi 9:34 condemns liars to hell?

15. Why does the Book of Mormon state that Jesus was born in Jerusalem (Alma 7:10) when history and the Bible state that he was born outside of Jerusalem, in Bethlehem?

Micah 5
1 " Now gather thyself in troops, O daughter of troops: he hath laid siege against us: they shall smite the judge of Israel with a rod upon the cheek. 2But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting." The Omniscient God can get it right 800 years before he was born there. Doesn't the Bible say God can speak of the future as though it was the past ? The man made Book of Mormon gets past history wrong .

16. If the Book of Mormon is the most correct of any book on earth, as Joseph Smith said, why does it contain over 4000 changes from the original 1830 edition?

17. If the Book of Mormon contains the “fulness of the everlasting gospel”, why does the LDS Church need additional works?

18. If the Book of Mormon contains the “fulness of the everlasting gospel”, why doesn’t it say anything about so many important teachings such as eternal progression, celestial marriage, the Word of Wisdom, the plurality of Gods, the pre-existence of man, our mother in heaven, baptism for the dead, etc?

19. Why do you baptize for the dead when both Mosiah 3:25 and the Bible state that there is no chance of salvation after death?

20. Since the word grace means a free gift that can’t be earned, why does the Book of Mormon state “for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do” (2 Nephi 25:23)?

21. Does the LDS Church still regard the Pearl of Great Price as Holy Scripture even after several prominent Egyptologists proved it was an ancient funeral scroll?

22. Why does the Book of Abraham, chapters 4 & 5, contradict Alma 11 in stating that there is more than one God?

23. Why does Doctrine and Covenants 42:18 say there is no forgiveness for a murderer when 3 Nephi 30:2 says there is forgiveness for him?

24. If the Adam-God doctrine isn’t true, how come Doctrine and Covenants 27:11 calls Adam the Ancient of Days which is clearly a title for God in Daniel chapter 7?

25. Why does the Book of Mormon contain extensive, word-for-word quotes from the Bible if the LDS Church is correct in teaching that the Bible has been corrupted?

26. Why do the Bible verses quoted in the Book of Mormon contain the italicized words from the King James Version that were added into the KJV text by the translators in the 16th and 17th centuries?

27. If the Book of Mormon was engraved on gold plates thousands of years ago, why does it read in perfect 1611 King James Version English?








 Bible Questions

28. If marriage is essential to achieve exaltation, why did Paul say that it is good for a man not to marry (1 Corinthians 7:1)?

29. Since the Word of Wisdom teaches us to abstain from alcohol, why did Paul encourage Timothy to drink wine for his stomach (1 Timothy 5:23)?

30. If obeying the Word of Wisdom - which tells us to abstain from caffeine, alcohol and tobacco - is important for our exaltation, why did Jesus say that there is nothing that can enter a man to make him defiled (Mark 7:15)?

31. If Jesus is the Jehovah of the Old Testament and Elohim is referred to as God in the Old Testament, can you explain Deuteronomy 6:4 to me: “Hear, O Israel: the LORD (Jehovah) our God (Elohim) is one LORD (Jehovah)?

32. Why does the Mormon Church teach that we can be married in heaven when Jesus said in Matthew 22:30 that in the resurrection men neither marry, nor are they given in marriage?

33. How can worthy Mormon males become Gods in the afterlife when God already said that before him no God was formed, nor will there be any Gods formed after him (Isaiah 43:10)?

34. If God had a father who was a God, how come Isaiah 44:8 says that he doesn’t know him?

35. If God was once just a man who progressed to becoming a God, how do you explain Psalm 90:2: “…even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God”?

or this Book of Mormon source
Mosiah 3:5 For behold, the time cometh, and is not far distant, that with power, the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was, and is from all eternity to all eternity, shall come down from heaven among the children of men, and shall dwell in a tabernacle of clay, and shall go forth amongst men, working mighty miracles, such as healing the sick, raising the dead, causing the lame to walk, the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear, and curing all manner of diseases.

36. How can God be an exalted man when Numbers 23:19 says that God is not a man?

37. Why does the Mormon Church teach that Elohim had sexual relations with Mary to produce Jesus when both Matthew and Luke teach she was a virgin (The Seer, January, 1853, p.158)?

38. Why does the LDS Church teach that Jesus paid for our sins in the garden of Gethsemane when 1 Peter 2:24 says it was on the cross?

39. Why did Bruce McConkie write that a man may commit a sin so grievous that it will place him beyond the atoning blood of Christ (Mormon Doctrine, 1979, p.93) when the Bible says that the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin (1 John 1:7)?

40. Why does the LDS Church teach that man first existed as spirits in heaven when 1 Corinthians 15:46 says that the physical body comes before the spiritual?

41. Since Jesus statement, “Be ye therefore perfect” (Matthew 5:48) is in the present tense, are you perfect right now? Do you expect to be perfect soon? According to Hebrews 10:14, how are we made perfect?

42. Why do Mormons say the sticks in Ezekiel 37 represent the Bible and the Book of Mormon when Ezekiel 37:20-22 tells us that the sticks represent two nations, not two books?

43. Why does the LDS Church teach that Jesus and Lucifer are spirit brothers when both the first chapter of John and Colossians teach that Jesus is the Creator of all things, including Lucifer?

44. Why do worthy Mormon males hold the Aaronic priesthood since Hebrews 7:11-12 clearly teaches that it was changed and superceded by something better?

45. If your leaders are correct about the complete falling away of the true church on earth, was Jesus in error when he said that the gates of hell would not prevail against it (Matthew 16:18)?



 General

46. If having a physical body is necessary to become a god, how did Jesus become a god before he had a body?

47. Do you think the LDS Church will reconsider its teachings that the American Indians are descendants of the Jewish race now that DNA evidence has proven that they are actually descendants of the Asian race?

48. If polygamy was officially re-instituted by the Mormon Church, how would your wife feel about you taking another woman?

49. Since the LDS Church teaches that there was a complete apostasy of the true church on earth, does that mean that the 3 living Nephites and the Apostle John went into apostasy also?

50. Why are Mormon Temple ceremonies secret to the public when the Old Testament temple ceremonies were open to public knowledge?


http://www.towertotruth.net/Mormon/w..._questions.htm



MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that they believe your Church is wrong, your Christian creeds are abomination to God, and you pastor or Priest is a hireling of Satan.
MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that there is salvation only in their church - all others are wrong.
MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that those who have been through their temples are wearing secret underwear to protect themselves from "evil". This "evil" includes non - Mormons like you.
MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU about their secret temple rites at all. If they did, you would spot them as non Christians immediately.
MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that they think "familiar spirits" are good, and that their Book of Mormon has a "familiar spirit". Leviticus 19:31 says familiar spirits defile one, and are to be avoided at all costs.
MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that women receive salvation only through their Mormon husbands, and must remain pregnant for all eternity.
MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that they intend to be gods themselves some day, and are helping to earn their exaltation to godhood by talking to you.
MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that they intend to have many wives in heaven, carrying on multiple sex relations throughout eternity, until they have enough children to populate their own earth, so they can be "Heavenly Father" over their own planet!
MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that you were once a spirit - child of their heavenly father, and one of his numerous wives before you were born on earth.
MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that the Virgin Mary really wasn't a virgin at all but had sex relations with their heavenly father to produce the Mormon version of Jesus Christ
MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that they believe Jesus had at least three wives and children while he was on this earth.

Mormon Painting


MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that the "heavenly father" they ask you to pray to with them, is really an exalted man that lives on a planet near the star base Kolob, and is not the Heavenly Father of the Bible at all.
MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that Jesus was really Lucifer's brother in the spirit world, and it was only due to a "heavenly council" vote that Jesus became our redeemer instead of Satan!!
MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that there are over one hundred divisions in Mormonism. They conveniently "forget" this while criticizing the many denominations within the body of Christ
MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that all their so- called scriptures such as the Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, Doctrine and Covenants, and even their official "Mormon Doctrine" statements contradict each other on MAJOR doctrinal points. The King James Bible is likewise contradicted.
MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that the reason the Book of Mormon has no maps is because there is not one scrap of archaeological evidence to support it!
MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that the state of Utah, which is predominately Mormon, has a higher than the national average of wife-beating, child abuse, and teenage suicide.
MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that their prophet Joseph Smith was heavily involved in the occult when he founded Mormonism.
MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that that they encourage visitations from dead relatives from the "spirit world", a practice forbidden in the Bible. (Deuteronomy 18:10-12.)
MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that there are many accounts of Joseph Smith's first vision besides the one they present to you, and all are different
MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that their secret temple oaths are based on the Scottish Rite Masons.
MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that before 1978 they considered the Negro race inferior, and even one drop of Negro blood prevented a person from entering their priesthood.
MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that they expect Christ to return to their temple in Missouri, but they haven't built the temple He's supposed to return to, because they don't own the property. (It is owned by the "Temple Lot Mormons" who have plans of their own, and won't let the Salt Lake City group buy it).
MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that they consider the Bible to be untrustworthy and full of errors.
MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that Jesus' death on the cross only partially saves the believer.
MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that that according to Anton Lavey's Satanic Bible, the demon god of the living dead is called "Mormo". Is it just a coincidence that the Mormons are so concerned with the dead?
MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that on their Salt Lake City Temple they prominently display an upside-down star which is a Satanic symbol known as the Goat's head. Why?
MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that they believe the Archangel Michael came down to earth with several of his celestial wives, and became Adam in the garden of Eden.
MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that that they believe the angel Gabriel came down to earth and became Noah in the days of the flood.
MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that their Prophet Joseph Smith prophesied falsely many times. For example, he foretold the second coming of Christ for 1891. The Bible teaches that one false prophecy puts the prophet under death sentence. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22).
MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that their Prophet Joseph Smith did not die as a martyr as they claim, but was killed during a gun battle in which he himself killed two men and wounded a third.
MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU about the Mountain Meadows Massacre in which they brutally murdered an innocent wagon train of settlers, of over one hundred men, women, and most of the children, traveling through Utah.
MORMONS WON'T TELL YOU that Joseph Smith taught that there were inhabitants on the moon, and Brigham Young taught there were inhabitants on the sun as well!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkMY88DZcGU&feature=youtu.be

This link explains that Mormons do not teach the same Jesus as Orthodox Christianity, for once I agree with there so-called prophet seer and revelator .


Saturday, February 1, 2014

The sad discernment of the Mormon top brass




It is fully proved in all the revelations that God has ever given to mankind that they naturally
love and admire
righteousness, justice and truth more than they do evil. It is, however, universally received by
professors of religion as a Scriptural doctrine that man is naturally opposed to God. This is not
so. Paul says, in his Epistle to the Corinthians, "But the natural man receiveth not the things of
God," but I say it is the unnatural "man that receiveth not the things of God." Paul, in another
place, says, "if our Gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: in whom the god of this world
hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious Gospel of Christ,
who is the image of God, should shine unto them." That which was, is, and will
continue to endure is more natural than that which will pass away and be no more. The natural man is of God. We are the natural parents, and spiritually we are the natural children of the Father of
light and natural heirs to his kingdom; and when we do an evil, we do it in opposition to the
promptings of the Spirit of Truth that is within us. Man, the noblest work of God, was in his
creation designed for an endless duration, for which the love of all good was incorporated in his
nature. It was never designed that he should naturally do and love
evil.

JD 9:305, Brigham Young, June 15, 1862

it is not natural for men to be evil. All men
admire that which is good; all men admire virtue and truth, whether they possess them themselves or not, they
still admire that which is good in others. You may go to the most wicked man that exists and talk to him upon
this subject, and he will say at once, "I am not an example, but such a man is and there are certain principles
that I admire, and if I could see them carried out I should be glad." Who does not admire the truth? And if
men carry out good principles in their lives, all others admire both them and the principles. Who is there that
does not admire virtue, no matter how lascivious they may be themselves? However dishonest the man may
be himself, there is a feeling of admiration of honesty in others. This feeling prevails among the children of
men. The only thing with them, and that which puzzles is, how shall the world be redeemed? How shall
mankind be purified and correct principles be introduced among the human family? Men know that their
hearts are evil, and they are ever ready to charge this upon others. The question now is, how shall good and

John Taylor
Journal of Discourses, Vol. 10



The Lord himself in these latter days has spoken of the place and mission of Adam: ". . . Michael, or Adam, the father of all, the prince of all, the ancient of days." (D. & C. 27:11; 88:112; 116:1) "The Lord God . . . hath appointed Michael your prince, and established his feet, and set him upon high, and given unto him the keys of salvation under the counsel and direction of the Holy One." (D. & C. 78:15-16) These are eloquent words, which could not well have been spoken of a sinner; only of one who has filled his mission well. Indeed, in the true gospel of Jesus Christ there is no original sin.

Evidence and Reconciliation John Widstoe    Mormon so-called Apostle


“Since there is no such thing as original sin, as that expression is used in modern Christendom, it follows that children are not conceived in sin. They do not come into the world with any taint of impurity whatever.” – Bruce R. McConkie (April 1977 Ensign)



 

 
 
 


1 Cor 2: 14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Ephesians 4:
17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, 18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Romans 3: 10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: 14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

Romans 7:24King James Version (KJV)

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?




Even the Book of Mormon disagrees with Mormons. But when does it ever agree with them ?

Mosiah 3:19

 For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.


2 Nephi 2:

21 And the days of the children of amen were prolonged, according to the will of God, that they might repent while in the flesh; wherefore, their state became a state of probation, and their time was lengthened, according to the commandments which the Lord God gave unto the children of men. For he gave commandment that all men must repent; for he showed unto all men that they were lost, because of the transgression of their parents.


 
 

Scripture is God-breathed

2 Tim. 3:16-17 says, "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work." The word "inspired" is literally "God-breathed." This is an interesting phrase, since it implies that the Scriptures are from the mouth of God.

Likewise, Peter says in 2 Pet. 1:21, "for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God." Notice that Peter is stating that prophecy is not the product of human will. Instead, prophecy occurs by those moved by the Holy Spirit.

God spoke through the mouth of the prophets. We see in Acts 3:18, "But the things which God announced beforehand by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ should suffer, He has thus fulfilled." Clearly, Luke, the writer of Acts, understood the Old Testament Scriptures to be spoken by God through the prophets. In fact, we find other references to the Old Testament referring to God speaking through the prophets.

•Words spoken through the prophet Jeremiah are referenced in Matt. 2:17, 27:9.
•Words spoken through the prophet Isaiah are referenced in Matt. 1:22, 8:17; John 12:37-40.
•Words spoken through the prophets Moses and Hosea are referenced in Matt. 2:15.
•Words spoken through the prophet David are referenced in Matt. 13:34-35.
•Words spoken through the prophet Zechariah are referenced in Matt. 21:4.
•Words spoken through the prophets generically are referenced in Matt. 26:56.

Because the prophets speak for God, write Scripture, and make prophecies, the Scriptures must be fulfilled. It is the written Scriptures that are referenced here. It is not some vague and ambiguous reference to some areas of the Bible that "contain" the word of God.



below is an example of God breathed versus man breathed and wrong

Written hundreds of years before Jesus's birth, The Book of Micah is a prophetic book in the Tanakh/Old Testament, and the sixth of the twelve minor prophets. It records the sayings of Micah, Mikayahu, meaning "Who is like Yahweh?", an 8th-century B.C. Micah 5

New King James Version (NKJV)

2
“But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,Though you are little among the thousands of Judah,
Yet out of you shall come forth to Me
The One to be Ruler in Israel,
Whose goings forth are from of old,
From everlasting.”


juxtapose

1800 years after his birth by a man and not God breathed

Alma 7: 10 And behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers, she being a virgin, a precious and chosen vessel, who shall be overshadowed and conceive by the power of the Holy Ghost, and bring forth a son, yea, even the Son of God.






http://youtu.be/au5tOfpNbbg


Would the Mormon Tabernacle Choir sing this song and mean it since Adore means Worship ? Do Mormons lift there hands to the LORD





1 Timothy 2:8
I want men everywhere to lift holy hands in prayer without anger or disputing

Lamentations 2: 19
Arise, cry out in the night, as the watches of the night begin; pour out your heart like water in the presence of the Lord. Lift up your hands to him for the lives of your children, who faint from hunger at the head of every street.

Lamentation 3:41
Let us lift up our hearts and our hands to God in heaven, and say:

Psalm 28:2
Hear my cry for mercy as I call to you for help, as I lift up my hands toward your Most Holy Place

Psalm 63:4
I will praise you as long as I live, and in your name I will lift up my hands.Psalm 134 :2
Lift up your hands in the sanctuary and praise the LORD.


D&C 88
130 And when he cometh into the house of God, for he should be first in the house—behold, this is beautiful, that he may be an example—
131 Let him offer himself in prayer upon his knees before God, in token or remembrance of the everlasting covenant.
132 And when any shall come in after him, let the teacher arise, and, with uplifted hands to heaven, yea, even directly, salute his brother or brethren with these words:





 Oct. 1978

I Have a Question--Ensign


In the Book of Mormon, the word Lord generally refers to Christ, but there are other times when it seems to refer to God the Father. How can one distinguish the meaning in a particular case?

Jesus is also a God. The Father is Supreme, but Jesus is also a member of the Godhead, and is by his calling a God. (See Heb. 1:8–12.) The Prophet Joseph stated: “I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods.” (Teachings, p. 370.)

In fact, very few sacred titles are used exclusively for one or the other. We can ask, for example, “Who is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?” We may think first of Jesus since the Father delegated responsibility for this earth to him. (See 1 Ne. 19:10 and 1 Cor. 10:4.) We must keep in mind, however, that some other prophets have understood this and yet they have designated God the Father as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. (See Acts 3:15; Acts 5:30; and Acts 22:14.)

So I didn’t wonder that my student reached the conclusion he did. He discovered that with “divine investiture” positive identification is sometimes difficult, if not impossible. As he put it, “Sometimes it seems as if God the Father is speaking and then it seems to be Christ. Even angels speak as if they were Christ.” (See Rev. 22:8–9, 12–16.)

The prophets themselves probably knew to whom they spoke, but the identity of the messengers may have become confused in translation or transcription.

It seems to me, however, that as long as we are persuaded by the Spirit that the message is divine, we should not be overly concerned about the identification of the messenger.


https://www.lds.org/ensign/1978/10/i...stion?lang=eng


 Very interesting how confused these Mormons are about the God they worship, they just can't make up there mind who the messenger is they seem very whimsical about who there etching ears are listening too

Selections from Answers to Gospel Questions
Taken from the writings of Joseph Fielding Smith
Tenth President of Mormonism
A course Study for the Melchizedek Priesthood Quorums
1972-73

Lesson 6 page 39

It was Jesus who gave commandments to Adam after he was driven out of the Garden of Eden and who directed Enoch and Noah before the flood. It was Christ who named Abraham and made him that through his posterity all nations would be blessed. He, it was who called Moses to lead Isreal out of Egypt and who wrote with his fingers on the tables of stone. He had no body until he was born in Bethlehem. If Christ could do these things as a spirit, the Holy Ghost can carry out the mind and will of the Father and the Son as a spirit. We are taught plainly that the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost, are One God, that is one Godhead.


Joseph Fielding Smith said, “All revelation since the fall has come through Jesus Christ, who is the Jehovah of the Old Testament. In all of the scriptures, where God is mentioned and where he has appeared, it was Jehovah who talked with Abraham, with Noah, Enoch, Moses and all the prophets. He is the God of Israel, the Holy One of Israel; the one who led that nation out of Egyptian bondage, and who gave and fulfilled the Law of Moses. The Father has never dealt with man directly and personally since the fall, and he has never appeared except to introduce and bear record of the Son .” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 1:27.)


 http://www.i4m.com/think/leaders/van_hale_discernment.htm


Hinckley and the Utahite Mormons had handed over the "blessing" for Joseph Smith III given to him by his father and obtained from the Thomas Bullock collection:



 Representatives of the Reorganized Church were in the audience - the document was one of Mark Hoffman's forgeries.


"The gift of discernment enables a bishop or branch president to know truth, to understand the differences between good and evil, and even to know what is in a person’s heart. Because he has this gift, we can seek his counsel and he can tell us what the Lord would have us do to grow spiritually."
- Official LDS Church Manual "Duties and Blessings of the Priesthood", Part A, History and Organization of the Priesthood, 8: Duties of the Bishop and the Branch President, 57."


"It is abundantly clear that presiding priesthood leaders are given the gift of discernment."
- Elder Gene R. Cook, “Seek Out Your Spiritual Leader,” Ensign, May 1978, 64


"I give my testimony that the prophets of this day have the qualities of the prophets of old and the other prophets of this dispensation. Each of these prophets has humbly and prayerfully sought to know and follow God’s will in his personal ministry. We declare with soberness, and yet with the authority of God in us vested, we have a prophet today. The President of the Church, as a prophet, is God’s representative on earth and is appointed to lead His church. Christ is the head of his Church today, just as he was in ancient times. The Lord has said that this is 'the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased' (D&C 1:30)."
- Apostle Robert D. Hales, "Hear the Prophet’s Voice and Obey," Ensign, May 1995, Page 15


In the end, folks, it was Jerald Tanner who had the gift of discernment, and fingered the forgeries of Mark Hoffman. Jerald Tanner was a devout Christian who had left the Mormon cult.




 

Thursday, January 16, 2014

Church not lost and no apostacy





Mormon leaders have made the tragic mistake of pointing their people toward a church instead of toward the Saviour. They claim that their church is the only true church and that all

others are false and have no authority. This tends to make people more concerned about an organization than about their relationship with Christ.

Mormonism teaches that shortly after the death of Christ, the whole Christian world fell into a state of apostasy. In the Bible, however, Jesus said "... upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18).

Orson Pratt did not seem to believe the words of Jesus for he claimed: "Jesus ... established his kingdom on the earth.... the kingdoms of this world made war against the kingdom of God, established eighteen centuries ago, and they prevailed against it, and the kingdom ceased to exist" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 125). "... the former-day kingdom no where exists on the earth, but has been prevailed against and overcome, and nothing is left but man-made churches and governments ..." (Pamphlets by Orson Pratt, p. 116).

The gates of hell have prevailed and will continue to prevail over the Catholic mother of harlots, and over all her Protestant daughters; but as for the apostolical Church of Christ, she rests secure in the mansions of eternal happiness, where she will remain until the apostate Catholic church, with all her popes and bishops, together with all her harlot daughters shall be hurled down to hell; (Orson Pratt’s Works, p. 189-190)

Apostle Pratt's words are in direct contradiction to Jesus' statement that "the gates of hell shall not prevail" against His Church. While it is true that there was a great apostasy throughout the Christian world, there is no evidence that there was ever a time when there were not true Christians upon the earth. In John 1:12 we read: "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name." We believe that in all ages some people have believed in Jesus and have "become the sons of God," and these people were members of His Church. Although at times the numbers may have been small, Jesus promised that "where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them" (Matt. 18:20).


3 Nephi 11:39 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine, and whoso buildeth upon this buildeth upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them.
40 And whoso shall declare more or less than this, and establish it for my doctrine, the same cometh of evil, and is not built upon my rock; but he buildeth upon a sandy foundation, and the gates of hell stand open to receive such when the floods come and the winds beat upon them.

41 Therefore, go forth unto this people, and declare the words which I have spoken, unto the ends of the earth.
The Book of Mormon even contradicts Pratt

http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/changech23.htm#554





The Apostle Paul wrote: "Unto Him (God) be glory in the Church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end Amen" (Eph. 3:21). Could that be true if there was a universal apostasy of the church for several centuries? Jesus also said, "Upon this Rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18). Notice that it is Christ Himself (not mortal men) who builds His church or adds to it (Acts 2:47), and Christ has all power in heaven and in earth (Matt. 28:18; Rev. 19:6). LDS often claim that the true church must be built upon the foundation of apostles and prophets, as Eph 2:20 says. This is commented upon later in this chapter under the sub-title, "Apostles." But Paul wrote, "...other foundation can no man lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ" (I Cor. 3:11). Since Jesus Christ is the Foundation of the church, He is also part of the church! Could that church "collapse" or become extinct when the omnipotent Christ is the Foundation of it? Is it possible for Christ to lose "the church of God which He hath purchased with His own blood" (Acts 20:28; Eph. 5:25)? Christ is called the "Good Shepherd" in John 10:11. But, any shepherd who loses all his sheep is not a very good shepherd!

Jesus must bear some responsibility for the existence of the church since God "gave Him to be head over all things to the church" (Eph. 1:22). The Lord Himself also nourishes (feeds) and cherishes (lovingly cares for) the church (Eph. 5:29). Jesus never told anyone else to go build His church. Instead, He declared, "I will build my church" (Matt. 16:18). And after He ascended into heaven, Acts 2:47 declares, "And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved." He needed no successor to build His church because He lives forever (Heb. 7:24-25). That is why Col. 1:18 declares, "He is the head of the body, the church." Notice the present tense verb is used which shows that Jesus was still Head of His church even though He had ascended to heaven many years before that was written! And Jesus is still the Head of His Church and He is adding members to it today! Thus, when LDS claim that Christ's church was prevailed against and ceased to exist, they insult the living Head of the Church!

Jude 1

King James Version (KJV)
3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints


We have received a kingdom that cannot be moved or shaken - Hebrews 12:28

There were 7,000 faithful in Elijah's day, but he did not know who or where they were (I Kings 19:13-18).

   Likewise, there were people faithful to God throughout all ages, though we do not know their names and addresses.




John 14


John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

12  "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14  If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it."

Jesus said "God with US" when he went back to heaven The Holy Spirit "God in US' would do greater work than him, Mormons say the Holy Spirit failed.

John 16

John 16:5 But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou? 6 But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart.

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 




 

Even Mormon scripture denies a total or universal apostasy. The B. of M. III Nephi 28 and the D. & C., Section 7, tell the story of the Apostle John and three "Nephite" apostles who were to remain alive on the earth until the second coming of the Lord! If four apostles have been on earth since the time of Christ, a universal apostasy could not have taken place during that time according to President Joseph Fielding Smith, the 10th Prophet, Seer and Revelator of the LDS Church. He said, "As long as one elder remains on earth today he would have the priesthood and could organize the church even though all of the apostles and first presidency, etc., were killed off" (Latter Day Prophets Speak by David H. Ludlow, p. 213). Can that be true of the LDS Church today and not have been true for the original church after which the LDS Church claims to be patterned? Thus, even if a universal apostasy took place, the four Apostles who never died could have restored the church without Smith's help! But, LDS claim Christ's church ceased to exist after about 100 years while Smith's is still growing after more than 150 years! Did Joseph Smith really build a better church than Jesus Christ?

Mormons deny a total apostasy unknowingly when the Mormon Tabernacle and other Mormon singers use mostly Evangelic composers and writers for there music . why would that be if they are in a world of apostasy according to the Mormons.


http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/mclaims7.htm#apostasy





Dan 2:. 44 And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. 45 Inasmuch as you saw that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold—the great God has made known to the king what will come to pass after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation is sure.”


Head of Gold is the Babylonian Empire
Breasts and arms of silver is the Medo-Persian Empire
Belly and thighs of brass is the Macedonian Empire
Legs of Iron is the Roman Empire
Feet of iron and clay is Rome broken into Ten Kingdoms

 

1. Alemanni - Germany.

2. Franks - France.

3. Burgundians - Switzerland.

4. Suevi - Portugal.

5. Vandals - Exterminated.

6. Visigoths - Spain.

7. Anglo-Saxons - England.

8. Ostrogoths - Exterminated.

9. Lombards - Italy.

10. Heruli - Exterminated.





 


Notice in verse 44
God would set up a kingdom which would never be destroyed during the Roman Empire and it would fill the whole earth. Jesus did set up the Gospel Kingdom during the Roman Empire and was expanded by the early believers at that time and now 2 billion members in the world today larger than any other religion including Mormonism with about 16 million members and of that number only 6 million are active.



Sennacherib's Annals are the annals of the Assyrian king Sennacherib. They are found inscribed on a number of artifacts, and the final versions were found in three clay prisms inscribed with the same text: the Taylor Prism is in the British Museum, the Oriental Institute Prism in the Oriental Institute of Chicago, and the Jerusalem Prism is in the Israel Museum in Jerusalem.
The Taylor Prism is one of the earliest cuneiform artefacts analysed in modern Assyriology, having been found a few years prior to the modern deciphering of cuneiform.
The annals themselves are notable for describing his siege of Jerusalem during the reign of king Hezekiah. This event is recorded in several books contained in the Bible including Isaiah chapters 33 and 36; 2 Kings 18:17; 2 Chronicles 32:9. The invasion is mentioned by Herodotus, who does not refer to Judea and says the invasion ended at Pelusium on the edge of the Nile delta.

It is one of three accounts discovered so far which have been left by Sennacherib of his campaign against the Kingdom of Israel and Kingdom of Judah, giving a different perspective on these events from that of the Book of Kings in the Bible.
Some passages in the Old Testament agree with at least a few of the claims made on the prism. The Bible recounts a successful Assyrian attack on Samaria, as a result of which the population was deported, and later recounts that an attack on Lachish was ended by Hezekiah suing for peace, with Sennacherib demanding 300 talents of silver and 30 talents of gold, and Hezekiah giving him all the silver from his palace and from the Temple in Jerusalem, and the gold from doors and doorposts of the temple.[9] Compared to this, the Taylor Prism proclaims that 46 walled cities and innumerable smaller settlements were conquered by the Assyrians, with 200,150 people, and livestock, being deported, and the conquered territory being dispersed among the three kings of the Philistines instead of being given back. Additionally, the Prism says that Sennacherib’s siege resulted in Hezekiah being shut up in Jerusalem "like a caged bird", Hezekiah's mercenaries and 'Arabs' deserting him, and Hezekiah eventually buying off Sennacherib, having to give him antimony, jewels, ivory-inlaid furniture, his own daughters, harem, and musicians. It states that Hezekiah became a tributary ruler.

Psalm 124

A Song of degrees of David.


1 If it had not been the LORD who was on our side, now may Israel say;

2 If it had not been the LORD who was on our side, when men rose up against us:

3 Then they had swallowed us up quick, when their wrath was kindled against us:

4 Then the waters had overwhelmed us, the stream had gone over our soul:

5 Then the proud waters had gone over our soul.

6 Blessed be the LORD, who hath not given us as a prey to their teeth.

7 Our soul is escaped as a bird out of the snare of the fowlers: the snare is broken, and we are escaped.8 Our help is in the name of the LORD, who made heaven and earth.

Hezekiah who wrote Psa 124 was trapped in Jerusalem like a caged bird in a fowlers snare, something also mentioned in Sennacherib's Annals yet the God of Israel destroyed the armies of Sennacherib that is not mentioned in his journal but is mentioned in the Bible.

Just a wonderful story of God’s protection from evil and backed up by historical evidence outside of the Bible.

Do Mormons have outside evidence or any evidence of Moroni living except as the capital city of Comoros way before the Book of Mormon was written


how about Alma, Lehi or Nephi ?

 


http://youtu.be/s4CRvAPzxjI